ephemeral traces

May 1, 2007

MiT5 Review

Filed under: academia, conference, fandom, personal — kbusse @ 4:56 am

This is a revised version of a response post I made to my fannish journal. It was friendslocked and several people asked me to open it up. Since I all but spell out my name, I figured I’d more safely dust off my RL name account and post it here. The title is particularly appropriate for me given that my paper revolved around an event at last year’s James Tiptree Jr Award.

The Women Men Don’t See

I’m finally back from MIT’s Media in Transition 5, and I’m not even sure how to express all of the different emotions that I’m feeling. I’m still somewhere torn between the excitement and enjoyment and collective creativity I encountered with the people I knew and met there and the dismissal and refusal to engage and plain ignoring us from “the guys.”

For those of you who haven’t been around the past few years listening to me rant about the gender issue, let’s just say that there’s been a pattern of fanboys ignoring fangirls, of male scholars dismissing and ignoring our interests or, when discussing the same material, our outlook and insights. Henry’s latest with its move from fannish (female) communities in Textual Poachers to media convergence and engagement with business is indicative to me of the shift that has taken place. It’s not that I need media fandom to be the only kid on the block but that I’d like us scribbling women not to be written out of history, getting replaced by fanboys and their concerns.

I find both Matt’s and Cornel’s books immensely interesting and intellectually stimulating, but they also indicate this clear shift in fandom studies from the collective to the individual, from fan as part of a community to fan as direct media engagement. I responded to my discomfort with that approach in my Flow response paper where I try to get at the difference between fannish behavior and partaking in fannish communities, and I think that difference is gendered to a degree as well. Henry’s response to that was interesting in that he acknowledged a change in his work that might just be gendered…

Moreover, I think I read it through the lens of repeated encounters where we’re always left wondering why the history seems to be written without us (mostly as subjects, but often even as objects). These are examples of conferences I or close friends came back from disenchanted.

* When a guy can show a machinima vid and proudly announce 1996 as the date of origin for that art form, he’s eliding decades of female vidding history. And that’s very, very wrong. (Harvard 2005)

* When the only female-suggested fan panel gets scheduled parallel to a fanboy panel, it might be a scheduling mistake. But the fact that the fanboy panel is focused on the new Doctor Who and the amazing rise of Russell T. Davies from fanboy to auteur is not. And it is yet again indicative of an emphasis and valorization on the commercial, on convergence, and professionalization that creates a power differential that, needless to say, remains heavily gendered. (SCMS 2005)

* When I hear a variety of papers by TV scholars who’d do well to read up on fan studies because they randomly use fan voices without awareness of the context (or the ethics involved in referencing these voices) yet not a single one of them comes to the panel on fan studies (thus missing some amazing papers), that’s very sad. (Console-ing Passions 2006)

* When all the women applying to a specific panel get moved to another (opposite a much more popular one) so that every single person on that original panel ends up being white and male, many of us are beginning to wonder why the only mention of women is as subjects (and even there I can only recall Henry talking about female fandom creations). (Flow 2006)

* When, at the final roundup session, a sole woman after a series of long-winded (male!) commenters stands up to complain about the lack of gender issues at this conference and gets interrupted by wild applause it might indicate that at least we made ourselves heard. (MiT 2007) Except for the fact that another woman did the very same thing two years ago at the last MiT—-and nothing has changed. (MiT 2005)

For me, personally, it’s even more complicated, because this weekend really drove home to me what it means to not be part of the academic community. It’s part practical (i.e., no, I wasn’t at SCMS, because I’m paying my own way, and there was no way we could have managed another conference given that it has no professional/monetary advantage for me), part psychological (yes, I’m five years older than you and don’t have tenure; yes, my name tag doesn’t have an institution because I’m not officially affiliated with a department). Like many women, I was forced into a choice between my academic career and my role as wife and mother. But it’s pretty darn hard to not only have to do my scholarship on the fly, at night, after doing my “real” work, but also to then be taken less seriously than I would have been had I stayed on the fast track. And it’s especially rankling when it happens in a community that claims to value marginalized spaces and the democratization of creativity and intellectual thought.

Our panel (Creative Transformations) was just one case in point. No one who had presented on the previous fan panel or sat in the audience seemed to show up (though there were a few people I didn’t know in the audience, but the folks I knew and had talked to certainly weren’t there). Who did show up were bunches of women; in fact, I think I counted a good dozen of my online friends). What the guys who missed our session didn’t hear were three intelligent papers that presented novel ideas.

Mine used a case study to argue for a quantitative (if not necessarily qualitative) difference in fan fiction in terms of intertextuality, ephemerality, and intimacy, trying to theorize fan creations as “ephemeral traces” both hinting at and hiding their originating performative event. Francesca Coppa’s presentation was a tour de force through the beginnings of vidding and Star Trek’s forerunner The Cage and the role of Spock. In her reading, Spock is not incidentally the featured character of the first vid but rather a cinematically overdetermined and eminently meaningful choice for women vidders, who were themselves often in science and engineering and technically adept. Her connecting Spock to the FEMALE first officer in the proto version was sheer brilliance! Rebecca Tushnet presented on copyright issues and alternatives like attribution and raised some fascinating questions in terms of who actually profits from remediated and transformative art. We were on time and thus had half an hour discussion that was smart and lively and at a level that suggested we’d all been talking to one another, which of course we had. I’d venture that any of those fanboys might have learned something, seen something they hadn’t known before–if nothing other than a video of Kandy Fong’s slide show, one of the first vids ever.

I’ve been on the fence for a long time about how much I want to be part of academia, how much I want to play to the fanboys. Flow in Austin had me irate, but it also had me hoping that things could be different. We tried really hard and, in a way, MiT was my last hope–the conference I knew had had gender issues in the past, but shouldn’t the brand new frontier of new media studies bring us together? We put together the strongest panel we could: four great papers, all of us good scholars who’ve published in the field. And it made not one iota of difference.

What fascinates me in all this is the way it connects with institutional and professional issues. We had a full room. I counted 23 women and 4 men. What I only realized belatedly, however, was that quite a number of the women came from outside the conference, came to hear us. All this BS talk about exceeding boundaries and opening up and how and what new media accomplished could have been seen in our panel: several people in the questions self-identified as librarians; several people who were from Boston, not academics but academically interested came to see us; some of them were, like me, independent scholars, who basically did scholarship in their free time. It was like the old bats’ network had drummed up the folks the old boys’ network refused us. Except that we’ve remained overeducated and underemployed; we’ve remained on the outside. [Not all of us, thank God, but even being on the inside it’s harder and slower and all that good stuff that can always be explained away unless you look at it large scale.]

And, y’know, every single guy probably had a great excuse why he couldn’t make it. The two I actually singled out and asked both certainly did. Except…when every guy has an excuse not to see us while we show up to theirs, well, it begins to look more systemic, more problematic, doesn’t it? One guy not making it may be happenstance; all of them is a problem!

So where does that leave me? I was up all night after the panel thinking about why I’m doing this, what I want, what I gain. Because on some level it’s never been about them, it’s never been about the guys. Yes, I want them to read our book; I think they should, because they’d learn to step outside of Lost and Heroes and see what else is out there. At the same time, they weren’t my primary audience. I’ve always been on the fence on whether my primary audience are other fans or other academics, and I’m still not sure. I’d like it to be both, like to be able to write in a way that makes fans recognize themselves and academics not dismiss it.

After our panel, Karen Hellekson mused whether our book might have gotten more response had Henry written a foreword, and I had to remind her that we purposefully and consciously hadn’t asked. [Which has nothing personally to do with Henry btw, because he has been an amazing supporter every step of the way when he didn't know either one of us, so kudos for that.] We didn’t want or need the fatherly frame presenting us to the world of fan studies…or did we? We went with McFarland, because they bridged the gap between scholarly and fannish to a degree…and yet that very fact already makes the book seem less worthy, less valuable in the eyes of some academics.

I’m eternally fascinated how academia manages to talk the talk but not walk the walk. When I was in grad school, everyone was encouraged to go interdisciplinary, to have wild visions and interesting projects. And yet, the job market in English lit demanded you have a solid field. I wasn’t wild, but my American and British modern and postmodern made me near unsellable for British and American modernist positions most of the time. Likewise, there’s so much talk about bridging the gap between academia and RL or academia and you-name-it. And yet that’s not really what I’ve experienced. Not just on the institutional level, where the very desire that you might have outside needs and obligations makes you near unemployable because academics are asked to move cross country, can barely stop the tenure clock to maybe take a year off from rigorous research for personal needs, etc. I think it’s also visible in the way we may have had more walk ins on our panel than in many others…and yet I can’t help but fear that the very aspects of us and our panel that made us appeal to those that came are the very things that allowed the fanboys to ignore us.

Gender and academic success are tied together for me on a number of levels. I’ve given up a traditional academic career to raise my kids and not move my family. And yet I had the (naïve?) hope that I could at least continue my intellectual interests, that I could be an independent scholar. But I’m seriously interrogating that belief at the moment, because if I’m writing and no one outside of my community here is reading? I might as well not bother with the conferences and the journals and the academic BS and really step outside the system and just publish it all here or in a blog. And I could continue to connect with other female fan scholars, many of whom have created a strong web where we support and work together and have managed to positively translate all the fannish virtues into academia, nonpaid labor and paying it forward and all.

In fact, this very post is an example of the collaborative nature I’m talking about, since it wouldn’t exist in a public place if several friends hadn’t asked me to post it publicly, and it’d sound a bit more awkward and maybe more aggressive if my initial readers hadn’t commented with responses and corrections and suggestions. Because there’s something about the way we engage on LJ and in female-dominated fandom that is different from the way I’ve been trained to engage, both rhetorically and in terms of group dynamics versus individualism. In a way, the very shift in discourse from community to individual in fan studies that I’d argue is gendered replicates different approaches to academic engagement. While I complain about the good ole boys’ network, I’m actually pretty sure that it is nowhere near as supportive and tight as its female counterpart—and yet it’s more powerful because most of its members are. [And this doesn't mean that we haven't experienced random acts of mentorship and support, and I am quite aware and thankful for every one of them. But it seems to happen less frequently and less intensely for us.]

In effect, then, the systemic gendered power differential replicates itself, and I really want to know how to change that. I want to find a way to bridge the gap. One way it happened this weekend was in the BSG panel TV 2.0: Remixing Battlestar Galactica. Four women presented on BSG and a large number of fanboys came. Maybe we just need to find the intersection? But the burden still seems to be on us; I mean, if I can go to hear a guy speak about soap opera fandom, why in the world can’t he come listen to Francesca talk about the history of vidding?

[ETA: Karen just posted a wonderful recap of most of the panels we went to and papers we heard HERE]

94 Comments »

  1. Bravo. Excellent post. I hope you get some engagement from the media studies academic community!

    Comment by wychwood — May 1, 2007 @ 12:52 pm

  2. I can’t help but fear that the very aspects of us and our panel that made us appeal to those that came are the very things that allowed the fanboys to ignore us.

    This is a real challenge, I think, and one I’m not sure how best to navigate. On the one hand, I want to applaud the things that make female fannish spaces so valuable — and high on that list are our sense of community and the ways in which we celebrate each others’ creativity. So I think it’s awesome that your panel was full of women who came to the conference specifically to hear y’all speak on issues that matter to us.

    On the proverbial other hand, the situation you describe frustrates me to no end — because what y’all were saying was valuable and interesting and I want it to be heard by a broader audience, not just by the women who are already a part of our world. And therein lies the rub.

    If we don’t speak up about who we are and what we’re doing, we’re stuck in invisibility and deemed irrelevant by the broader academic community. If we do speak up about who we are and what we’re doing, but nobody comes besides us — has the falling tree really made a sound, there? And if not, why is the onus always on us to be more “like them,” and not on them to stretch a little bit (just as far as walking in the door and listening for a change) to learn from what we do so wisely and so well?

    Comment by Kass — May 1, 2007 @ 1:37 pm

  3. Kass, I think that’s the central problem, isn’t it? In the recent LJ debates the question of fanfiction and economics raised the same concerns: should we professionalize to get the money/status/power of the men or valorize our gift economy and fannish support structure as an alternative to capitalist practices?

    The fact that I purposefully posted this to a blog (rather than the bizarrely maligned LJ) already answers my own question whether I have given up yet or not–apparently I haven’t!

    But the fact that I have this blog at all is yet again indicative of the gendered power game: I’m on a private community blog with some friends from grad school. When we tried to decide on a space, my LJ experience of many years and the real advantages LJ offers as an interface for communication and tailoring one’s experiences was belittled as biased whereas my male friend who’d only been blogging for a short while declared blogs ‘better’…and everyone agreed!)

    Someone in my LJ commented to this post pondering about the dangers of flocking ourselves in and remaining in our tight knit community. Vidding has certainly shown us that our decades of keeping it on the low down has only resulted in some of the best artists remaining hidden while newbies post any dreck on youtube and thus become the face of vidding!!!

    I’m not sure how comfortable I am in this environment: it’s more formal, less interactive (you won’t get notification that I responded to you!) and I feel quite exposed coming from my safe little friendslocked environment where I know my audience. But I do so worry that we’ll be getting written out of the fannish and acafannish history if we’re not paying attention and stepping forward!

    Comment by kbusse — May 1, 2007 @ 2:12 pm

  4. This is a great, important post––I hope it gets read by the people who need to see it.

    I worry that someone will respond with, ‘Oh, but there are women doing celebrated Media Studies work!’ But that isn’t the point at all, of course. The point is that this huge area of activity is being completely overlooked and that, even if not every exluded person is a woman and every non-excluded person is a man, that the distinction is *gendered*. As you have already said, but I just wanted to reiterate.

    When I tell people or show people in my academic context the level of intellectual debate and discussion I read or get involved in on a daily basis in fandom, if I show people the paper we collaborated on that quotes fannish discussions, they are shocked and astonished and fascinated. They assume that this level of analysis is restricted to the academic blogosphere (if they think it can take place on the internet at all). But it isn’t! And of course that is only a tiny fraction of what is going on.

    Let me add in public that, relatively liminal to fandom as I am (though when it comes up in academic debates or spaces like this I become extremely partisan!) I feel incredibly privileged for the support networks I’ve found on LJ and the mentorship I have received from people like you. I stand by my encouragement of you posting this on a ‘real’ blog, but I hate it when people disrespect LiveJournal just because the amazing uses to which it’s being put are invisible to them.

    Comment by Alexis — May 1, 2007 @ 2:39 pm

  5. Alexis, I really hope our piece gets published, if only to show people the level of intelligent debate that happens there every day. Remember when I linked to a Flow article and an LJ post by a friend on the same show? The latter was more insightful and yet remained hidden. But we are doing tis to ourselves to a degree. I love the mixing of public and private, the academic and the deeply intimate and the porn side by side by side…but it also exposes us in ways that can be unsettling (if not dangerous).

    And yes, mentorship and support is really for me the most central thing we’ve managed, I think. I heard quite a few papers on collaboration at MiT and what fascinated me was the way it was held out by many as the future and utopian when we practice it all the time. The fannish hive mind comes up with meta and fic ideas all the time and while there certainly *are* anxieties of influence and threats of plagiarism, many of us do cherish it in the way the collaborative sublime can create ideas we never would be able to by ourselves…

    Comment by kbusse — May 1, 2007 @ 3:07 pm

  6. When I think about these very real problems, I don’t immediately see them as being tied to gender, although of course they are — not by conscious sexism, I believe, but by system issues. The point you make in your comment above about setting up a wordpress blog for professionalism rings very true to me. My professional blog is by conscious choice on livejournal, because I believe it’s the best tool for the job (primarily because livejournal allows threaded discussions). When I set it up, a large number of people expressed surprise that I had chosen to put my professional presence there, and yet when I asked why they could only make vague sounds about the associations between livejournal and non-professionalism. But an entire field (authors, editors, and members of the publishing community) defaults to using livejournal as its blogging tool, so what makes it nonprofessional? One could easily argue that it is the associations between the tool and its largely young membership, but one could equally easily argue that it is the associations between the tool and its heavily female adult contingent.

    I wish I knew how to get the machinima and vidding people communicating. At many levels, that is a far more natural partnership in terms of media production than the current partnership with vidding and fanfiction. The latter partnership is based on the community-oriented environment of creation, critique, and communication; the former partnership would be based on the artifact produced, the legal issues, and the means of production. Both are rich partnerships to explore, and it’s extremely sad that one of them is left fallow because of communication problems in the academy.

    Comment by Deborah Kaplan — May 1, 2007 @ 5:00 pm

  7. Threaded discussion is what I miss most, in the blogosphere. I’ve subscribed to this comment thread, so I’m getting all of these tasty responses in my aggregator — but I can’t respond directly to anyone’s comment, nor are comments automatically emailed. I miss those things as they exist on livejournal, and wish the broader blogosphere presumed them the way that lj does. I miss how they easily foster interactivity. We can replicate them here on this blog, more-or-less, but it takes work.

    Comment by Kass — May 1, 2007 @ 5:24 pm

  8. I have recently begun (re)interrogating my intellectual/academic desires as well. I firmly believe that fan studies is the wave of the future, but I think you’re right — we have a chance now to direct the flow, and it’s important to direct it down paths of resistance.

    When I think of myself as a fan, I think of myself as an individual. It wasn’t until I began the process of immigration — and thus subjected myself to intensely patriarchal structures of power in entirely new and frightening ways — that I began understanding “the blogosphere” as the cooperative, supportive place that it can be. It wasn’t until I had the time to really listen to other women that I saw where the decisions made by a few (like the telcos and their attempts to thwart net neutrality via Congress) could erase the voices of many (female fans who depend on US-based servers and networks for communication and engagement).

    I think I’m something of a rare case in that I have had little interaction with stereotypical fanboys. I’m married to a male fan, but I don’t think him as a “typical fanboy.” He doesn’t build dioramas, and he can slip on the slash goggles if he wants to. (I lucked out.) So perhaps my perception of myself has yet to be tested against that particular whetstone. Only time will tell. But when I read posts like this, I think of myself as belonging to a much larger tradition. That in itself is a comfort.

    Comment by Madeline — May 1, 2007 @ 5:31 pm

  9. Deborah says:

    I wish I knew how to get the machinima and vidding people communicating.

    Some of that is going to happen at the USC Annenberg Center’s DIY Video Summit, which I’m helping to curate. And while I agree that vidders and machinima makers have plenty in common, it’s hard for me to believe that a lasting cross-cultural bond will be formed.

    Both activities are fannish. Fannish engagement means people will participate in something they care deeply about. Though vidders and machinima people are both interested in IP/Copyright issues and technology, the motivation to connect will not be obvious to most. What drives us is our respective love of our respective video sources, and the rewards of the vastly dissimilar cultures that have arisen around each.

    All of which may be somewhat OT.

    I am always saddened and angered when the aca/fans report back from conferences that they were ignored yet again by the majority of people there. Clearly it takes a profound commitment to the cause to keep pushing away at these seemingly immovable objects. I do wish more of us within fandom proper could come up with ways to help legitimize our activities in the minds of the academy and the mainstream, and yet I am resistant to the notion that we must play by their rules, that we should even care what they think.

    Comment by Laura Shapiro — May 1, 2007 @ 5:42 pm

  10. It was like the old bats’ network had drummed up the folks the old boys’ network refused us. Except that we’ve remained overeducated and underemployed; we’ve remained on the outside.

    Which has been very much my experience as well (Mina’s author, that is–though on reflection Mina looks set to follow the same path!).

    Comment by minademalfois — May 1, 2007 @ 6:26 pm

  11. Deborah, remember feminism 101? Seriously, though, while I wrote this, I was simultaneously emailing with one of the “bad men,” and he was being supportive and sweet and helpful. I mean, I *know* that very few of the fanboys are actual misogynist assholes (though they do exist there just like everywhere else, of course), but the problems are so much deeper. Why did I stay home with the kids and my husband ended up supporting the family? Why did he earn more in his profession than I could in mine? Why are there even needs to have to choose between heading from L&D back to work in minimum time or give up your job altogether? Why are there so few part time opportunities that offer decent wages and benefits?

    It’s May 1st and I just got off with my mom who yet again was flabbergasted when I reminded her that the International Workers’ Day is indeed a day of work in this country.

    As for the blog vs LJ issue: I really think that blogs are inferior to foster discussions simply because they’re lacking comment notification and threading (though the former is being approximated by comment subscription, I guess). Plus, I’m missing my icons, my little paratextual signifiers! What bugs me more than anything else though on a personal level (and I’m not sure I’ve seen that brought up yet) is the fact that blogs *are* individualistic whereas LJs are much more part of a larger structure on the interface level. While we can individualize our LJs, our readers can easily override that. My LJ experience is more uniform and more controlled by me whereas even zapping the hell out of most blog pages still won’t let me find the stuff I’m looking for…

    Comment by kbusse — May 1, 2007 @ 6:34 pm

  12. Kass (re comment 7): Yes!!!! This is my first blog entry and I’m already getting exhausted trying to keep track. I think we may either be used to threaded discussions and thus haven’t developed the skills to work around it or (and given that you use blogs much more than I do), there is no good workaround.

    Maybe my critique that blogs are lecturing to rather than engaging with is really, fundamentally structural?

    So…I’ll try what I’ve seen others do and just respond to several:

    Madeline, good for you and your fanboy partner! I’d hate to gender it to the point where it really does fall along gender lines and think of it much more as tendencies that we can see as resonating gendered discourses. And yes, I’m rethinking my position constantly. If anything, that for me means I’m still an academic (para though it may be : ): I still learn all the time!!!

    Laura, I remain immensely excited about DYI and the questions it’s already forced us to ask. For me the fangirls in academia and the visibility of vidding and the fanfic professionalization discussion are all interlinked somehow…

    Mina, may I just say how much I adore the fact that we’re carrying out fannish heritage with us wherever we go which is so nicely proven by the fact that my first real blog post is receiving a comment from a fictional character (and on of the smartest metacreations I’ve encountered in fandom !!!) Though it does sadden me that both you and your author have followed the ‘overeducated and underemployed’ path…

    Comment by kbusse — May 1, 2007 @ 6:46 pm

  13. As someone who encouraged you to post after reading your flocked post, I’m glad you did (and will have to RSS feed this blog–somehow I’d missed that you were posting over here).

    Although my experience is that I find the blog threading to be incredibly frustrating for conversation because of the lack of all the lovely amenities I take for granted over at LJ. So I tend to read the blogs I RSS feed but not engage much because there’s really no engagement.

    Related to your post was a meeting we had the other day, to try to start a Woman’s Academic Network on our campus (we’d tried similar things in the past, and they collapsed under the weight of everybody having too much to do). I’m a full professor now, but I am still hearing junior women faculty talk of being sexually harassed by senior colleagues; of not being mentored by anyone; of departments who aven’t managed to get anyone tenured in ten years or in one case, nearly twenty; of lack of information on the process of application; of the impossibility to saying no to department heads who assign women more classes and more service than men at the same level–and all of these guys probably consider themselves “nice guys.” Including the Dean who told one female colleague a few years back that he was holding her to a higher standard than the men in the department (as he recommended against her early tenure–she’s going off for a Fullbright in Jordan next year–she’s in Political Science).

    So. It doesn’t take active misogyny to be sexist.

    I’m glad the individual males are nice and helpful and sweet to you (or some of the other women you know), but that ain’t the point, is it?

    The point is a whole system (it’s not just the media scholars) that is both passively and actively designed to exclude women as a group. While that system has developed a few cracks recently, it hasn’t changed; it’s not equal; it will take more decades to even begin to approach it (and that’s only for white women–because “we” are doing better than African-American women, Native American women, Asian women–in the U.S., from the statistics I see).

    Look at the hoops we had to jump through to get our book reviewed (and I’m still going to backtrack through those journals when I have time and see how many anthologies by male scholars have been reviewed)–and we’ve been warned about “civility.”

    I guess I’m wondering, and maybe you could ask him when next you talk: has Henry Jenkins read How to Suppress Women’s Writing, and does he in fact see any parallels to what Joanna Russ was saying *years* ago and what you described here?

    At my university, a number of us hear things like: “You’re just saying that because you’re a feminist.”

    And we’re tenured, many of us moving up the academic hierarchy, and it still doesn’t matter.

    We’re still women.

    And even worse, some of us are feminists……I’m getting tired and cynical and not inclined to really give a damn any more what the men do.

    Yes, that means the histories and other works will be written excluding women.

    But what’s new about that?

    And, no, maybe nothing much has changed.

    Comment by robin reid — May 1, 2007 @ 7:09 pm

  14. Still playing a devil’s advocate here (and you are going to hate me, but I generally have a problem with feminism)…

    Again, I find your outcry a bit confusing and a bit frustrating.

    The confusing part: I come from a female-dominated part of Russian academia. Humanities (and to some degree social studies) have always been women’s space, while science (and to some degree social studies) would always attract more men. Yet while we have so many women at the departments and among the student population in humanities, to the point where there are female-only conferences with hundreds of participants, it is somehow those few men who end up writing and publishing seminal works and women who end up compiling textbooks for undergrads and obscure collections of articles full of professional jargon. It wouldn’t be a huge mistake to say that most women in my field in my country are mediocre scholars who chose academia because it would be more intellectually challenging to work there (as opposed to working as a secretary or translator in the company, or a language teacher at school - and, honestly, this is about all you can do if you have degree in English in Russia). Men, on the other hand, have to be passionate enough about the humanities to a) enter an all-female department; b) receive government/private foundations support for their scholarly efforts. They HAVE to be visible, they HAVE to have career, they HAVE to constantly prove they are worth this salary and something more, while women in this situation can still rely on their husbands to support them and don’t actually NEED to make themselves visible. So they don’t. Of course, the situation is faaaar from ideal, but very few women would actually complain, because they are comfortable with the status quo. And trust me, whenever a woman has something to say, the audience will listen - male or female, regardless… it’s just whenever she opens her mouth nothing good comes out of it. So whose fault is that? You might (and you probably will) that what I have described is outrageous and surely something must be done and surely there are women who think different. Well, not exactly. There are very few feminists in our field in Russia. Why? Because I think that we have all the possibilities we want, we just don’t use them, and when Bakhtin gets quoted right and left everybody realizes that it is not about gender, it is about merit. So the confusing part was that you actually chose to raise the issue in the first place, because the gender bias excuse is something I am completely unaccustomed to and something I don’t think is entirely justified in this particular case. And here is where it gets frustrating.

    The frustrating part:
    From my perspective (and again, I am comparing this conference against all other conferences that I have been to), the organizers did everything they could to mix and match. For them it is a no win situation, because they get blamed whatever they do: they put three experts as panelists and all experts (who might just as well have been Derrida, Foucault and Barthes themselves) happen to be male, they get bashed for neglecting women. They put a woman, an african american and a while male on the panel to exercise tolerance, the asians and hispanic, AND the female get offended because the first two groups are not represented well enough and that other group is either misrepresented or under-represented. Should we not give a damn, anyway? If a person has something interesting to say should we not be glad to listen to them whatever the gender or race? Instead of busying ourselves with mental statistics and looking for discrimination clues? Because this was a vastly UNbiased conference, and the individual instances of non-participation are exactly that - individual instances of non participation. And even to that I have to say that almost 30 people on the panel is a LOT, male or female. Why do we care about gender? Again, you can’t *make* people attend one event over the other when they are interested in the other better/have other plans/other academic agenda regardless of what somebody thinks might do them good. I, for instance, overslept a panel on Disruptive behavior, so whose fault is that? Following the logic of this post, I should blame the organizers for scheduling this particular call session so *early* in the morning, and while blaming them I should conveniently forget about my screwed up sleeping schedule and a quite conscious decision to skip out on that one. But what the heck, it is a male conspiracy. I didn’t submit a paper for the conference and regret it. Male conspiracy again? Or my own fault for thinking too low of my own academic abilities? If anything, non submitting a paper was mostly due my fear that I couldn’t really contribute to the discussion because everything has been pretty much said/discovered by others. Who are, for the record, female.

    On Sunday I ranted about Saturday’s Collaboration and Appropriation call session being fanboy-dominated (despite the fact that there was a girl among the presenters, and she made herself heard), but where were you, oh those who could have spoken up? The BSG session, am I right, with the other women (and men, as it happens)? I didn’t talk back, but that was not because I was a female intimidated by males, but because I found myself not interested in the topic the way it was framed. What’s your excuse for choosing not to be there? :-)

    Again, you are totally entitled to hate me now, but I am not sure I get the whole feminism thing. Which brings me back to my initial reference to the current situation in Russia: we (as professionals, academics and human beings) certainly have all the possibilities to speak up, but more often than not consciously choose to sit in the corner perfecting self-effacing techniques or to stick with our own.

    You think there is anybody to blame? `

    Comment by Ksenia — May 1, 2007 @ 7:13 pm

  15. a small addendum: I’ve read the comments at Jenkins’ blog so far.

    All very squee-ful, not one mention of gender issues. I will be *very* interested to see if *anybody* over there responds to this blog entry.

    I also noted one woman’s podcast got linked to (she writes about wrestling–so women scholars who focus on appropriately “guy” things might get acknowledged??)

    Comment by robin reid — May 1, 2007 @ 7:13 pm

  16. Robin and Ksenia: Can I just let you battle this one out?

    The sad thing reading both your comments is that Robin is the senior scholar, full professor and for all intents and purposes “there” whereas Ksenia has yet to battle the many issues that will come along. Or maybe that *is* part of it: I know I’ve gotten more radical, more frustrated, more feminist the older I’m getting, the longer I live.

    Or maybe it is indeed Ksenia’s background, because I know from my East German family that real socialism certainly did its own harm to women and feminism alike.

    And yet I have to disagree with you. If anything, the fact that I couldn’t go to a panel with 4 fangirls doing fan studies and to a session on collaboration and appropriation is, if anything, a scheduling issue, right? I chose the one that was clearly fannish about a show I am fannishly invested in featuring three people on my friendslist. I don’t think I need to defend myself for that, do I? : )

    Speaking up? Well, not to name names or anything, but one session I held my hand up for a good 15 minutes while one of the presenters looked at me seeing me wanting to ask him a question. 5 or 6 different folks were called upon, and i never got to ask my question. In another session my (as it later turned out clearly well supported!) question was dismissed with a “We’re not gonna go into this right now”. Accidents? Random? Probably. My fault because I don’t ask questions well? Probably. And yet!!!

    And I think you are kind of missing the point I’m trying to make. I’m not blaming any single guy who didn’t come just like every fan scholar will have good reason not to read our books while we read theirs. Why would they care about beta readers in fanfiction or LJ RPGs. Otoh, I’m reading their work on Batman action figures and Heroes computer games and whatnot!!! When I’m talking about things being systemic, I’m including everything from the fact that I’m not working in my career (personal choice but how much of that has to do with the fact that I rather than my husband is the one actually pregnant and nursing, how much has to do with the fact that he’s in a traditionally male field making more money, how much has to do with the fact that in this country there are very few part time jobs with health care and benefits???) to the fact that men get called upon more regularly to…a wealth of other SYSTEMIC reasons. It’s not just that everyone chooses to go to a session or not and it’s definitely not an attack on MiT or the people running it: it’s a generally frustrated rant over the fact that I’m seeing a gendered divide in my field in terms of content and form.

    I know that there were any number of pragmatic reasons why there were only white men at that panel at Flow, for example…and yet the question might be asked as to how that came about, how these people already knew one another, how they had books when females their age didn’t. And a one to one case can always come down to ability, guy X is smarter/better/more accomplished than girl Y. But when you get to statistics, you’ll have to either suggest that women are less capable biologically…or you have to allow for the fact that it might just be a social systemic problem!

    Comment by kbusse — May 1, 2007 @ 7:41 pm

  17. Francesca Coppa’s presentation was a tour de force through the beginnings of vidding and Star Trek’s forerunner The Cage and the role of Spock. In her reading, Spock is not incidentally the featured character of the first vid but rather a cinematically overdetermined and eminently meaningful choice for women vidders, who were themselves often in science and engineering and technically adept. Her connecting Spock to the FEMALE first officer in the proto version was sheer brilliance!

    Except that in either The Making of Star Trek or its sequel (I’m not where my books are) Gene Roddenberry says that in The Cage he wrote Number One deliberately, and she was the one character most disliked by the pilot audience. They also felt that Spock’s ears and eyebrows were too demonic (the description is either demonic or Satanic, I don’t remember which). He decided to combine those characteristics with the Science Officer, keep the ears and the eyebrows since he wanted there to be aliens in the show, and as he put it, he ‘got rid of the character Number One but married the actress’. Majel Roddenberry was recast as Nurse Chapel, who was oddly watered down.

    So — it was a factor known about in the late 1960s, at least.

    Comment by dejla — May 1, 2007 @ 9:56 pm

  18. To Ksenia: I’m not going to hate you, and I’m not going to even try to argue feminism with you, especially not with relation to where you are and what you are doing. I know *nothing* of the cultures of Russia, or the academic institutions and practices in Russia. I do know that what my friends tell me about the academic systems in the United Kingdom and Germany, what little I’ve heard, is completely foreign (sorry, no pun intended) to what I know and see here; even in Canada, the systems are different. I cannot disagree with you about your assessment, but then I can also guess you do not really know enough about academic cultures in the U.S. to be able to completely dismiss feminist concerns (which are, in my perspective, larger than just this conference).

    I hope you’ll be willing to admit that things may well be different in other countries: I do not see “humanities” as dominated by women in the United States (by humanities, I mean history, english, philosophy, etc.). I can probably dig up some statistics (I know History and Philosophy grant the fewest number of doctorates to women; English arguably grants the most, verging on 60% the last time I saw any data).

    The disciplines (and departments on my campus) that are dominated by women are Social Work, Elementary Education, Secondary Eduation (Educational Administration is male-dominated; that’s where the training to be a school principal is given–they only offer a doctorate). Even departments dominated by women here always have male heads.

    I wasn’t at this conference: but I have been actively involved (and indeed elected at various levels) at a number of national conferences (Popular Culture Association, International Association of the Fantastic in the Arts, where I’m currently serving as second Vice-President). I decided to get involved at IAFA after my first visit some years ago when I decided that it would be a much better conference if more feminists were involved, and so I got involved.

    We recently ended the first conference with a gender theme ever; we had excellent attendance (and it wasn’t all women either). I consider the current president (a man) to be a feminist.

    I faced problems in the tenure and promotion process all the way through, primarily I (and many in my department) believe because I do feminist and queer theory. The good news is, I made it through: but in the process I’m much more cynical. I would say burned out, but I’m still willing to fight for the junior women on my campus.

    I don’t know about Russia, as I say, but I do know that there is a long and complex herstory of women fighting for their rights in both the United States and the United Kingdom (including the right to own property, to vote, and a whole host of other rights). I have read something about contemporary feminist movements in Japan.

    I hope you might agree that there are reasons for feminisms (I prefer the plural form, because there are so many different theories about feminism, some focusing more on class, some on sexuality, some of ethnicity), and that the marginalization of women in a variety of institutional and public settings has been documented (if anything, in the U.S. academic system, white women have done better than all other ethnic groups, showing that racial privilege counts for something–by better, I mean hiring, tenure, promotion, etc.).

    As far as I’m concerned, much of feminist argument concernes the existence of a “social systemic problem,” so I would agree with you.

    I am a feminist; I have been one since the early eighties. I am a full professor, and am 51 years old. I have been at my current university since 1992. I earned two MA degrees in English, a doctorate in English (and worked on an MA in playwriting), all at different universities. I was a faculty brat, so remember the days when women were not allowed to attend graduate school. I’ve also read enough feminist theory to know that many feminist activists would dismiss my concerns as middle-class and those of a sell-out!

    I will accept your experience and interpretation of it, and I hope you will accept mine.

    Comment by robin reid — May 1, 2007 @ 10:00 pm

  19. Near as I can tell, there’s no idea solution to the threaded discussion problem. *wry grin* Sometimes when folks comment on my [other, non=fannish] blog I email them replies to their comments individually, to replicate what lj does automatically; usually I reply to multiple comments at once; and eventually I get tired and/or too busy to respond to everything, and hope readers will simply keep talking in my comments threads on their own. It’s suboptimal, but what can a body do?

    Anyway — I’m so glad this thread is here, and really glad this conversation is happening. I have endless respect for my aca/fannish friends, and I think what y’all are doing is awesome, especially given how exhausting and thankless and invisible the work can be. I can make some analogies in my own life (mostly having to do with my experiences as a liberal Jew encountering male-dominated conservative religious spaces) — and they just make me even more aware of how hard this is, so THANK YOU for being out there & giving voice to all of this.

    Comment by Kass — May 1, 2007 @ 10:56 pm

  20. Hope this doesn’t post twice, this stupid page didn’t accept my email address but then had erased the message when I hit “back”. Again:

    You veer toward this a little, further down in your post, but the phrase that struck me was

    when every guy has an excuse not to see us while we show up to theirs

    What if you just didn’t show up at theirs? And schedule a lot of alternative panels, even if they had to be in private rooms or whatever? They might not notice if their audience is mainly male anyway, but you never know…

    Comment by decarnin — May 1, 2007 @ 11:12 pm

  21. Dejla I may not have done Francesca’s argument justice, but I don’t think the fact that a 60s demographics encouraged Roddenberry to get rid of the female figure in power and replace her with the alien contradicts anything she’d have to say about it. Im’ not sure if Karen’s summary does it more justice???

    Kass Well, I think these days everyone’s stealing from everyone else, and many of the reasons that made us all move from blogs to LJ in the first place (those that didn’t come directly from the MLs) are not necessarily all that discrete any more, i.e., we have aggregation, comment notification, certain privacy locks, even one icon : ) I feel like blogs, LJ, and social networking sites are all becoming more alike and really differ substantially in who uses it for what. That being said, I still think for my purposes LJ is the best interface at the moment! And not jut because my friends are there : )

    Thank you for saying that! I’m not sure anyone’s even reading this. We may just be talking among ourselves again, but at least this time it’s in the street , not the back yard!

    Decarnin See, that’s the million dollar question. I think if we look at vidding, our prime example at the moment, then we’ve done our own thing for far too long… That’s how this guy could dare say that at Harvard!!! Plus, for me it’s also simply a matter of comprehensive research. I may not go to their panels, and they’d care less, b/c I don’t exist in their universe. But to do my work, I feel like I want to read all th fan studies. And I’m not even saying that there weren’t some large gaps the other way (which I have since remedied, I hope).

    Comment by kbusse — May 1, 2007 @ 11:50 pm

  22. I’m not sure, since it was about vidding and vidding only really began with the price drop in VCRs.

    But…

    If — not that I have any intention of doing so, but if — I were going to write a paper or a book or something about the first Star Trek series and its effect on fandom, I would first consult these books:

    1973 - The Making of Star Trek, by Stephen E. Whitfield
    1973 - The World of Star Trek, by David Gerrold (written by a fan who sold two scripts to the original series)
    1975 - Star Trek Lives!, by Jacqueline Lichtenberg, Sondra Marshak, and Joan Winston (This is about Star Trek fandom, the early conventions prior to Creation Cons and contains long sections on fan fiction, with summaries of some of the more famous series, as well as excerpts. Some of the fanzines listed in here can still be found via conventions and used-zine dealers.)
    1975 - Star Trek Star Fleet Technical Manual by Franz, Joseph, And Joseph, Franz
    1977 - City on the Edge of Forever, by Harlan Ellison
    1983 - On the Good Ship Enterprise: My 15 Years with Star Trek, by Bjo Trimble — 1983 (she started the original Save Star Trek campaign.)
    1985 - Ishmael, by Barbara Hambly (Barbara Hambly had a solid following as a science fiction writer already. They asked her to write them a ST novel, and she said she did have one. Pocket Books printed it, unaware that they were printing a fanfiction novel which crossed ST with Here Come the Brides. It’s a great book, and a great piece of fanfiction.)
    1985 - Killing Time, by Della van Hise (This might have originally been fanfiction; I believe it was. It uses a number of tropes and cliches from ST fanfiction, including role reversal in which Spock is the senior officer and Kirk the junior.
    1987 - Black Fire, by Sonni Cooper (This I am almost certain was originally a slash fan fiction)

    I’d also try to locate copies of Spockanalia, which was the first Star Trek fanzine, and contained essays as well as brief fanfiction and illustrations. Some of these may be found in the M. Horvath Collection Of Science Fiction Fanzines at the University of Iowa Libraries Special Collections Department.

    Comment by dejla — May 2, 2007 @ 12:32 am

  23. Kristina,

    Thanks for your post & the resulting conversation. I’ll out myself to your readers as one of the “fanboys” you’re calling out (presumably). I did have legit reasons to not have been at your or other panels, and we had some nice discussions in passing between panels - but I completely understand & respect the impetus behind your post. While the my sentiment (or that of others I assume) was by no means to avoid female-centered panels, the effect was real. I certainly noticed the odd gender traffic of the conference (my Sunday-morning panel was 90% male in the audience), and felt quite segregated throughout. For me, it was somewhat circumstantial, as all of my female “conference buddies” didn’t attend this one (and had they, I’d likely would have been drawn to their panels), and my friends who were there had panels scheduled opposed to the ones you noticed being overwhelmingly female in attendance.

    All that aside, let’s cut to the chase - why might a male media scholar like myself show less interest in attending fan-oriented panels? For me (and I won’t try to speak for the rest of my gender), my interest in fandom is rooted in the primary text, considering how fans consume and make sense of television programs - thus my paper focused on fans who read LOST spoilers (which is not an explicitly gendered practice). I’m not particularly interested in fan productivity on its own, mostly because I don’t consume fanfic, vids, etc. and thus can’t appreciate most analyses of a form that’s foreign to me. Fan presentations that analyze fan engagement with the primary text and the mechanisms for that engagement (like the BSG wiki) interest me much more than the communities that emerge around fan writings and videos. Are my interests & tastes gendered? Of course - but I don’t think following those gendered tastes makes me any more sexist than a female fanfic scholar. I don’t dismiss fan productions as worthless or wastes of time, and I teach the area in my courses (and have your book sitting on my shelf), but it’s not the area of study I want to explore at most conferences.

    I guess I have little more to say about the topic, except that I am truly troubled by it. I consider myself a feminist in both politics and practice, and enjoy media studies as a field in large part because feminism runs through its blood and the field is more gender equal than most academic realms. But if this perceived gender divide is emerging, I don’t want to be part of it - what measures can we take to break down such a divide?
    -Jason

    Comment by jmittell — May 2, 2007 @ 2:36 am

  24. Re: the Star Trek novels and the fan writers.

    Killing Timed by Della van Hise was recalled and edited for reissue, I’ve heard — because she not only snuck all kinds of K/S tropes in it, there was an incident in the botanical gardens where Captain Spock pins Engsign Kirk down (a Romulan device changes time, i.e. AU) which was too erotic for gen readers and the editors (though pretty tame in terms of slash culture!):

    “Using Vulcan strength, Spock seized both of Kirk’s wrists in one hand, holding him immobile. With his legs, he scissored the human’s ankles, ebony-black eyes stabbing through hazel-golden pools, compelling cooperation. With his free hand, he reached for the human’s face, fingers spreading and seeking the neutral centers necessary to a link.” (174)

    Just above this section, Spock reflects “he hhd never met a human who could arouse such forbidden feelings, who could wrestle emotions from him as easily as turning on a light.”

    The mind-meld as sex, and the incredible connection between the two characters is at the heart of this story.

    I’m not finding any credible source for the recall in a search or two (I heard it originally in a presentation by two Canadian scholars at Pop Culture years ago–they presented several papers on Trek novels, slash, and women writers).

    A.C. Crispin’s Spock’s Son would fall into this category as well–one of the K/S genre conventions I gather was that Zarabeth on the ice planet had a son with Spock, and that let writers play with a character with Vulcan characteristics and no Vulcan cultural upbringing.

    After Paramount cracked down on allowable plot elements (in one paper, the scholars argued it was because of KT and some of other writers), and started having more men write the tie-in novels, I stopped buying them–lack of characterization, lack of more original characters, lack of emotional relationships (i.e. slash!)

    Comment by robin reid — May 2, 2007 @ 2:40 am

  25. Jason:

    I appreciate your willingness to come and talk in this space; I had very low expectations of any of the men doing so. I have equally low expectations of Henry Jenkins acknowledging Kristina’s points in his blog in a major way (but the nice thing about low expectations is that one can be pleasantly surprised).

    Since you identify as a feminist, it makes sense that you would be willing to talk.

    A few questions:

    why might a male media scholar like myself show less interest in attending fan-oriented panels

    My question is: do you consider fan studies part of media studies? I don’t think there is consensus on that issue, but it’s a key one. I am not sure I see media studies as being the natural “home” for fan studies, but that reflects my disciplinary bias (I teach creative writing, critical theory, especially queer and gender theory). If it is a part of media studies, then even if it’s not your primary scholarly interest, I can see the reason for keeping up with scholarship in it, and conferences are a good way to go. I understand that one would attend sessions congruent with one’s interests and where one’s friends are presenting (and in this case, I gather that only your male friends attended, not your femaled–which is interesting).

    You say media studies is more gender equal than other fields and that feminism runs through its blood. If that’s the case, would you share with me major media scholars who are feminist (male or female)? Most of what I see on Henry Jenkins’ blog are males (if names are to be trusted, and people seem pretty out over there unlike in fandom), and I don’t see him writing much about feminism in media studies. And if what you say is the case, I wonder why my women friends who have attended several media studies conferences report what we see in other academic conferences. Nothing they’ve said has implied “oh wow feminism here” to me.

    I don’t dismiss fan productions as worthless or wastes of time, and I teach the area in my courses (and have your book sitting on my shelf), but it’s not the area of study I want to explore at most conferences.

    Have you read the book (granted, we’re all very busy, but, I cannot help asking since you brought it up)? I often attend sessions at conferences to fill in gaps for my teaching that are not my primary areas of scholarship; for example, at the most recent International Conference for the Fantastic in the Arts, I asked the Division Head for “Cultures and Communities in the Fantastic” to allow me to moderate a session on World of Warcraft since I’m teaching a course on New Media Literacies (graduate, online) next fall, and I’m not too well informed on games.

    But I believe, as Kristina made clear, that the issue is not only what one or two individuals do, at one conference, but a whole pattern that many of us (dmostly women, often feminists, of various ages and at various stages of academic careers, working in various disciplines) can see as familiar to on-going patterns of marginalization, exclusion, and dismissald, ones we’ve seen in our graduate programs, at our universities, and at other conferences.

    She raised a number of other points–including the on-going request for a plenary discussion on gender and media studies–that ideally will be addressed at some point. I would take a bet there are also questions around ethnicity and sexuality (since I do queer readings in my work, I have noticed the complete exclusion of queer sexualities from Convergence Culture, a change from Textual Poachers).

    The more communication, the better, although I’ve been accustomed to most of the men not wanting to hear or listen to feminists (I’m very happy to say that I’m seeing changes among younger male faculty both at my university and at conferences).

    thus my paper focused on fans who read LOST spoilers (which is not an explicitly gendered practice).

    Now I’m interested because while I could be convinced that reading spoilers is not gendered as an activity, I cannot believe there are not differences between male and female fans in reading the texts! Does your work include gender analysis at all? If it does, how? If not, why not? And how do you know it’s not a gendered activity?

    My work (I work in LOTR fan fiction, and I write it as well, including slash, and RPS) includes the texts as well as fans (mostly women; I’ve only recently met a couple of men who write female slash). It seems to me that fandom is, like mainstream culture, very much concerned with gender issues (ditto the media texts).

    But I also write papers on Tolkien’s novel and on Jackson’s film. One of the books I’m using in my class next fall is an anthology on LOTR in popular culture (there’s at least one essay in there on trailers), from media studies. I imagine I will know more the field after I’ve taught it.

    I’m not sure I have any answers–well, I do, actually, but I’m willing to be argued out of it. I told Kristina last year that we ought to just concentrate on our own networks, mentoring, and work and ignore the men because I suspect a feminist separatist mode might be more effective and would certainly be more pleasant. She still felt there were bridges to be built, and I’m sorry she was so disappointed at this latest conference.

    Comment by robin reid — May 2, 2007 @ 3:11 am

  26. Kristina, thanks for encouraging me to drop by. The stream here points to all sorts of things wrong with the system, some very deep-seated (and hence I apologize for the long post). For instance, while reading this, it made me wonder why *I* spent much of the weekend with a bunch of guys — nothing as simple as thinking girls have cooties, but more because these are often the people who’ve been most supportive of my scholarship, and with whom I share my own fandoms. Both of which lead back to a key gendered divide. But I wonder therefore how much this discussion points to the problems of researching across this divide. The guys still tend (no rule of course, but still) to like one set of texts, the women another. I remember assigning Will Brooker’s Using the Force to a class in Berkeley with 3 guys, 28 women, and wow did it flop. And when the soaps class comes around for me now, the guys tend to zone out.

    This just feeds into the problems of marginalization then. Most of the fanboys and guys I’ve met and who I really enjoy hanging out with share my fandoms: Jason Mittell, Ivan Askwith, Derek Johnson, and so forth are people I can discuss Lost, Star Wars, etc. with. And so they’re also the ones who read my work. With one exception (yay Diane Alters), I have no known female advocates. Meanwhile, the situation you all describe shows how men (myself included, though I’m not really a fan scholar. More on that distinction in a second, though) have often abandoned scholarship on texts and practices that have been gendered female.

    Of course, the key difference is that the “male” texts and male scholars aren’t as marginalized within academia as a whole. Part of this is vocabulary — the men have often shrouded what might otherwise be seen as fan work with “important,” new sounding terms like “Web 2.0,” “transmedia storytelling,” “convergence,” “new media,” etc., while many women have been less keen on giving up the ground of fandom and fan community. So the male fan-based scholarship can tend to sound more mainstream in a field that is still often actively hostile to fandom (I have a colleague who told me that our students consume crap, and it’s our job to lead them closer to The Odyssey. wtf?!). And the fact that many dept heads and committees are male only helps the men further (most conversations my dept head and I have are about Rome or The Wire, Lost or so forth).

    So as Kristina said above, it’s not so much that the fanboys are actively excluding. Instead, a lot of it is that our fandoms have us by our … well, you know.

    In thinking about MIT5 though, I also think about another gendered issue. I was one of the people who missed the fan panel. My brother was in town for the conference too — a first (indeed, his first conference) — and we needed time to catch up. I’ll also admit that Louisa’s absence made that particular panel all the more vulnerable to being missed. Which makes me think about how crap conferences are for parents, but particularly mothers (or here, mothers to be). My wife does demography, and her conferences have creches, women with babies, etc. We desperately need to start making conferences more inviting and open spaces for parents and parents-to-be, so that, for instance, I can see Louisa in a few months, rather than miss them for a full year or three while the men keep on coming and we keep solidifying our little male bonding groups.

    None of this should be read as an attempt at an excuse. While I hardly speak for the fanboys as an elected representative :-) , we certainly deserve criticism. And the fact that much of my non-teaching day has been spent discussing this with Kristina, Jason, Derek, and Josh Green should at least suggest that we’re gradually starting to listen, so thanks for getting the ball rolling Kristina.

    Comment by Jonathan Gray — May 2, 2007 @ 3:32 am

  27. Thank *you*, Jason!

    See, the thing that I’ve been trying to carefully negotiate is to not make it about individuals, because truly, every time we’ve asked you or Jonathan or Henry (or even Matt whom we’d never met), y’all have been more than generous with your time and support.

    And you make a really important point about both sides being exclusionary, because I was struck after my conversation with Jonathan at the reception to see myself go off with my fangirls and him with his fanboys…or rather, I went to dinner with 4 close friends with whom I talk regularly and have worked and played before while he did the same with his friends. I think the external power structures of tenure systems and academic publishing as well as the imbalance in power in the content itself (which often is gendered, because why would Batman be more worthy than Charmed otherwise?) makes the gendered academic spaces uneven though.

    Moreover, beyond the slightly whiny “Why don’t the boys want to play with us?” : ), I think what worries me most is the sense of serious change in emphasis of what constitutes fan studies. I felt that after y’all’s Flow panel and responded in my Flow commentary, and it struck me again in the first fan panel we heard together. Fans seem to be most worthy in male fan discourses when they stop being fans and become producers, when convergence takes place, when money gets made. Russell T. Davies clearly has become the poster child of fandom, both for his ability to gain profit and control from his fanboyiness but also because we, of course, embrace him for his queer sensibilities as Francesca so nicely reminded us. If I were to pick a poster child for us fangirls, it might be Naomi Novik…but I almost feel like we’re back to, your interests are our interests and our interests… Moreover, every good female fan tends to safely separate her real from her fannish life.

    So are we just picking bad hobbies? Why do machinima and fan film experiences translate into employment opportunities yet the same is not easily true for fan fiction writers and vidders? I know too many of both who wish they could showcase their creative endeavors on a resume yet can’t.

    And then, of course, there’s the entire concept of whether we even should embrace capitalist convergence. My little corner of the LJ world had been abuzz just before I left with discussions on this post and responses to it all over LJ land. The central question was a feminist challenge to our hard held beliefs of staying in the fiction closet, of not trying to profit from our passion, of celebrating the gift economy. I think the debates are nearly incomprehensible to male convergence fans, and maybe it’s that divide more than anything else (and the scholarship that focuses on such opposite approaches to fandom) that we might need to focus on.

    What can we do? When I gave Louisa my detailed report her first suggestion was, “Next year we’ll make a panel together!” And while I initially wasn’t too keen on trying to get audience by getting guys on the panel, I think that if we actually tried to *address* the split, tried to thematize the gendered practices (i.e., is wiki participation really fanboyish? what are the differences between machinima, AMVs, and vidding and how is that gendered? is the individual fan engagement with source text versus community involvement gendered on the level of the fan or just on the level of fan scholarship? and so on!), that could indeed be a way to try to break down that divide. (Alternatively, we can have an intellectual smackdown…maybe the wrestling fandom scholars can give us some hints : )

    Comment by kbusse — May 2, 2007 @ 3:44 am

  28. Intellectual smackdown? Now I’m interested ;-)

    Seriously, and sorry if this sounds like a shameless plug, but my forthcoming co-edited (with Lee Harrington and Cornel Sandvoss) book on Fandom: Identities and Communities in a Mediated World doesn’t spin fandom off to the individual, nor to the money making. Nor is it overtly fanboy-ish. Rebecca Tushnet looks at the legalities of fanfic; Victoria Gosling looks at women sports fans; Christine Scodari has a piece on how Beatles fans try to ostracize the feminine by ostracizing Yoko Ono; Melissa Click has cool work on Martha Stewart viewers; a whole section looks at high culture fandoms (yet not at money making per se); another section looks at global fandoms, so as to broaden fandom beyond the Western; etc. Admittedly, the book lacks something on vidding, but part of that is a function of its history and of the editorial team’s (ie: my) relative techno-unsavvy while putting it together two or three years back (though Bertha Chin gets LiverJournal a shout-out in her chapter). I hope it’ll help allay your fears about the direction of fan studies a bit.

    Comment by Jonathan Gray — May 2, 2007 @ 4:02 am

  29. oops. sorry about the typo: LiveJournal, not LiverJournal (I don’t think I’d ever want to read the latter!)

    Also, Nina is a silly little girl who shouldn’t try to play with the big boys. [Edit by Kristina to illustrate a point in this post on author(ity)]

    Comment by Jonathan Gray — May 2, 2007 @ 4:04 am

  30. Hey Jonathan, never apologize for long posts! And thank you for talking about this with me all day, for trying to think this through *now* even if we failed to do so there (and I can’t have been the only one who felt like she was running half the time and exhausted the rest… ;)

    I’m not totally sure the content explanation works quite as well as the network one. After all, y’all sat through a soap opera fandom paper…by a GUY!!! But I do take your point that certain fandoms appeal more to men in fannish ways whereas others do more to women (i.e., even as many of us watch certain shows, we’re not necessarily very fannish about it. I know very few women around me who don’t watch DW, Heroes, BSG, but a lot of the creative endeavors go into SGA or SPN…clearly shows that don’t get embraced by the guys…except by Henry :)

    I think the vocabulary issue is an important one (and trust me, we spent hours finetuning our panel title and papers to not sound so fannish!), but I think the underlying impetus may be even more important. I’ve made the individual/community argument several times now, but now I’m wondering whether there might be a diachronic/synchronic at work here as well. After all, convergence is all about synergy and sychronicity and all those cool terms. Watching our show on the computer and Itunes or, like I experienced during the final panel, walking around second life and watching the feed as I’m sitting in the audience in real time all the while IMing with a friend in England who then joins me and watches me in the audience on the screen in SL. Neat stuff!!! Form not content has been criticized a few times in the responses I’ve seen, and a lot of the fanboy excitement does seem to come from that sentiment. Meanwhile, we’re tracing our history, trying to uncover our foremothers and not let them be forgotten. I’ve always felt very strongly as part of a tradition that not only goes back to mimeographed zines and cons but farther back to SF fandom. And I’m sad we can’t even meet there (then again, at SF conferences, that’s exactly the gender divide that occurs there… ;)

    And yes, thank you for bringing in the real world issues. As I said above, for me it’s hard to become (or remain) part of a community where I can’t go to SCMS and several other conferences because I’m paying my own way every time without any discernable income of my own. Likewise, the mom situation is definitely a crucial one, because as you point out, conferences are where bonds get formed and it takes a lot of online interaction to have the weight of even a couple of drinks together after a panel.

    You have no idea, though, how happy it made me to hear that you guys were talking amongst yourselves (and you even with me : ). Because there are loads of female fan scholars out there, and while I can give emotional and intellectual and even practical support, I, for example, have no academic weight…you guys do! I want these female scholars who are finishing now, who are beginning their dissertations or even just beginning their degrees to feel like the guys are part of this already vulnerable field of fan studies–not that they’re yet another group that’ll dismiss them.

    Finally, yes, I’m very much looking fwd to your collection. And I’m glad you’re saying it’s not all convergence and commerce…

    Comment by kbusse — May 2, 2007 @ 4:43 am

  31. Lots to respond to here. First, some of Robin’s questions: I guess I’d call fan studies & media studies complementary areas, with the former generally but not exclusively a subset of the latter - literary fan studies (like Radway) probably aren’t media studies per se, but more generally cultural studies. I do keep abreast of fan studies by reading articles that intersect with my specific area (American TV - and I’ve read a few essays from the Fan Fiction book, but not the whole thing), and I do go to a number of fan-centered panels at most conferences (including 2 at MIT5).

    As for the feminist presence in media studies, I think many of the foundational texts by both men (Fiske, Morley, Allen, Jenkins) and women (Spigel, Brunsdon, D’Acci, Douglas) are explicitly feminist in politics and analytic scope. I think the current generation of media scholars has a lot of people like myself who are more tacitly feminist - my work rarely focuses specifically on gender issues, but underlying my approach is an understanding of how gender shapes all categories in media. So while I don’t look much at representation or identity issues, I see my consideration of genre categories or discourses of value as innately gendered. I think this holds for many media scholars today who do not explicitly analyze gender representations or reception, but many do focus on those issues in explicitly feminist ways.

    The spoiler research was based on a survey of around 150 spoiler fans of LOST. We looked at the responses for gender differences (the response was 60% female), but noticed no patterns that we felt comfortable asserting as a central part of the analysis. Here’s the quote from our footnote about the issue: “In collecting this demographic data, we hoped to see any substantial differences between genders and consumption practices. Some trends confirmed what might be assumed gender norms: men are more likely than women to watch the show online or via their computers, listen to podcasts, play The Lost Experience game, and watch episodes multiple times, while the only practice significantly more common for women than men was reading fan fiction. Concerning their reasons to watch, women definitely emphasized relationships and solving the show’s mysteries more than the men’s priorities of suspense, production values, game-play, philosophical issues, useful teachings, and puzzle solving, however there was significant overlap in all categories. We are reluctant to offer these findings as anything more than casual observations, however, as the sample was neither random nor large enough to offer firm statistical significance.” So that’s what I meant by spoiler fandom not being explicitly gendered.

    I need to run, so I’ll post more in response to Jonathan & Kristina soon…
    -Jason

    Comment by jmittell — May 2, 2007 @ 3:05 pm

  32. I just wanted to quickly respond to Jason’s first post, because this about it has been bothering me:

    I’m not particularly interested in fan productivity on its own, mostly because I don’t consume fanfic, vids, etc. and thus can’t appreciate most analyses of a form that’s foreign to me.

    Now, although I do some work in fan studies of the ‘fangirl’ sort, I don’t consider myself primarily a fan scholar; I am a grad student in an English department and I mainly do queer theory and cultural studies. But I just cannot understand how “analyses” stop being interesting just because they are of a “form that is foreign.” If the theory is good, if it shows how work is being done in and around fan communities that is important, then how can that knowledge production be considered ignore-able just because it doesn’t happen to deal with a set of texts and practices that interests you personally?

    I read work on texts and communities I know nothing about all the time, and I learn huge amounts from it and use it in my own work. I have to, because I want to do my own cultural theoretical work around texts that are not taken seriously, and to have any hope of my own work being taken seriously I need to engage with the theory being written around other texts in my area of methodological interest. But also I want to read that work, to understand that knowledge, because it is interesting to me! And I read as widely as I have time to in new media theory and fan’boy’ studies too, for similar reasons. Is it really so much to ask that this exchange go both ways?

    Comment by Alexis — May 2, 2007 @ 4:32 pm

  33. On a simple level, though, Alexis, Jason’s comment just points to him being academically honest. We all know people who write media studies but don’t actually watch the media, not seeing this as a problem. Having done my undergrad and first grad degree in English, I’m still appalled by how many people feel they can write an attack on a media text, genre, or form without actually looking at it — if I did that in a Lit class, I’d be blown out of the water.

    Like Jason, I just don’t feel qualified to read a lot of stuff on certain forms of fan productivity. I recognize it as important work, but the distance between my knowledge now and the knowledge I’d need to engage more fully with it is often enough of a gap to stop me progressing. As with, say, my lack of reading on regulation, or on music, radio, etc. — all things that I know matter, and that I may read if I had time and if I had been tipped off had something very relevant to the sorts of questions I’m asking, but that ultimately I don’t know enough about to engage with. Right now, I’m working on many things at once, so really only have the time to read things that I must (ie: submissions to the journal, things for class, things for a chapter I’m writing), and I know I’m by no means alone. Kristina and I were emailing about this yesterday, and I bemoaned then that academics often aren’t given enough time to be better rounded. And I don’t even have kids …

    Comment by Jonathan Gray — May 2, 2007 @ 6:53 pm

  34. My concern is essentially that the new “convergence culture” will end up replicating the power structure of the old capitalist models that it wants to engage or replace unless people have an aggressive and intentional political will to the contrary.

    I’m not enough of a postmodernist to say, “hey, great, we’ve all been invited to the party”: the party will have rooms, subdivisions, VIP tents and velvet ropes, and the new capitalism will have structures in place (particularly those huge ideological ones for media: money and demographics) that will tend to promote some things over others. The irritation, I think, occurs because many historically-marginalized groups have a longer history of subcultural practice than the more mainstream groups: sometimes it feels like, hey, look, the white rappers have arrived! the male vidders! the non-science geeks in their contact lenses! (Disclaimer: I wore my contact lenses for much of the conference and not my thick black frames. *g*)

    But many of the things we prize in new media were essentially strategies of resistance, the lemonade we made out of mass-produced lemons. Why else make movies with VCRs, why write your television dramas on paper, or make music by sampling, other than that these are the tools you can get your hands on (VHS tape and paper and vinyl are cheap) and the mass media (with its slavishness to money and demographics) isn’t meeting your needs? Sometimes, when I think about the current mainstreaming of fan culture, I think, “Wow, the divide between cultural producers and consumers has gotten so wide that its spawned this massive revolt: we’re all poachers and technopeasants now, we all feel like we have to seize the means of production!”

    That’s my utopian vision; my more cynical mind replies, “No, look, the tools have gotten shinier and more upscale and there’s money in it now, and hey, hey: here come the boys.” Watch as they take fan culture public…at $1.69 a share. I don’t think that’s the public culture that we dreamed about, and I’m not interested in being on the MIT Lifetime Channel For Fangirls on the Time Warner Convergence Network.

    Comment by Francesca Coppa — May 2, 2007 @ 7:41 pm

  35. I’m sorry to say that I don’t have time to respond thoughtfully to Jason’s response to me, and to the later postings–I’m in one of those time crunches–but I will try to get back because I value what is happening here.

    Just two quick things:

    http://xkcd.com/c256.html

    This map is being linked to and discussed on my flist with some on-going commentary about slash and LJ’s placement. A friend of mine (medievalist) spends a lot of time teaching the ideology of maps in her classes, so it strikes me that this map would make a great exercise in many ways–from having students do their own maps of online communities, to ‘researching’ the rationale behind relative size (the generic world map we all know completely misrepresents the relative sizes of continents, countries, etc.).

    And this assumption may be my sexist one (math! male!) (although a few people referred to the artist as “he” when referencing possible poster), I am interested of course in gender and ideology–i.e. how much this map reflects the male artist’s ideology and experiences. I plan to use this link in my new Media Literacies course. I may assign students to read both this webcomic site and Alison Bechdel’s.

    A second quick thing (OK quick for me! I just have to cut/paste), was since I’m babbling about this course (taught online, for the first time, in my department), I thought I’d post some basic information about it.

    As a tenured, full professor, who until recently was required to teach a four/four load at a rural university with heavy service requirements (and the four/four load included both first year comp, majors courses, and graduate classes), the only way I learned to avoid going insane was coordinating scholarship and teaching. So I’ve been teaching cultural studies themed composition classes (had some great papers from gamers), etc.

    This new graduate course reflects some of the work I’ve begun doing as well as adds work in areas that I’m not as familiar with.

    COURSE DESCRIPTION

    This course is designed to show students how to apply critical theories to a range of contemporary media in today’s convergence culture. The media covered will include: the internet, fan fiction, wikis, blogs, games, graphic novels, and other media not traditionally covered in “literary” or traditional “film studies.” The approach will be interdisciplinary; the course will be informed by interdisciplinary multicultural and gender theories and practices. Scholarship done in literary, media and communication, sociology, and linguistics will be assigned.

    ASSIGNMENTS

    Online class discussions

    Personal literary narratives about students’ experiences with new media.

    A class wiki.

    Project: Original scholarship on some aspect of new media literacies/literacy practices. Students will craft a topic proposal, annotated bibliography, rough draft, revisions, before turning in a final draft, with feedback at all stages.

    REQUIRED TEXTBOOKS

    Trouble and Her Friends Melissa Scott

    Split-Level Dykes to Watch Out For Alison Bechdel

    Control and Freedom: Power and Paranoia in the Age of Fiber Optics Wendy Hui Kyong Chun

    Everyday eBay: Culture, Collecting, and Desire Ken Hillis, Michael Petit, Nathan Scott Epley

    The Lord of the Rings: Popular Culture in Global Context Ernest Mathijs

    Unit Operation: An Approach to Videogame Operation Ian Bogost

    Comment by robin reid — May 2, 2007 @ 8:43 pm

  36. Francesca:

    MIT Lifetime Channel For Fangirls..

    You do know, don’t you, that Lifetime channel is the mouthpiece for all us radical queer commie pagan evol feminists who are training normal women to hate men? And oh yes, we are all *much* worse than Don Imus!

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Usher/david49.htm

    ;>

    Comment by robin reid — May 2, 2007 @ 8:45 pm

  37. Robin: Oh my sweet lord. sexist and myopic “documentaries” about abused women– okay, you know what? I formally apologize to the Lifetime network. I didn’t realize they were all radical queer commie pagan evol feminazi, in which case: sign me up! (Though seriously–if domestic violence is now a radical issue? We’re in big, big trouble.)

    Comment by Francesca Coppa — May 2, 2007 @ 8:56 pm

  38. Before jumping back into this debate, may I just say how much I dislike blog interfaces. Seriously, the lack of threaded discussion makes any longer conversation incredibly difficult to oversee (and the lack of email notification makes it more difficult for different interlocutors to continue participating!)

    In response to Jonathan and Alexis responding to Jason: and the question of who reads what: I think, Jonathan, that even though I fully agree with you on limited time etc., the underlying issue’s still there. If I may continue my little generalizing individual vs community approach a bit longer, I do think that the reading tends to be one-sided (i.e., you wouldn’t dare consider yourself a female community fan scholar without engaging with Matt and Cornel, but I’m pretty sure a large number of fanboys haven’t looked at Bury’s work, for example). And I’m not even sure that’s altogether wrong, because clearly Fan Culture and Fans addresses psychological issues that are important for community fan work as well whereas Cyberspaces of their own looks at communities that may be irrelevant to scholars focused on the source text/audience interaction.

    Except that it begs the question as to why Toto and Kraftwerk can become representative and Due South can’t. Or said differently, I might still like to challenge the approach that values the singular engagement at the expense of the community. Maybe we just need to look at what our varying communities can teach each other (i.e., I was quick to dismiss Jason’s Wiki examples out of hand but I really shouldn’t. And I think his work on Wikis might profit from looking at other forms of collective writing–even if only to see how they differ?) And Jason’s comment might be academically honest, but it also gestures toward what is and isn’t considered important in academic discourse at the moment. And that, of course, brings us right back to the issues of commercialization, convergence, professionalization etc

    Francesca, I think you really point toward what for me is becoming the most central issue, namely the way I feel that (female) fan culture was cool and new and worthy when we were early adapters and adopters and manipulators and “subversive” and somewhere along the lines the scribbling in the margins became scribbling ladies and the new thing is how to make money off this stuff. Our home-squeezed lemonade has been replaced by minute maid and we’re not even getting a nod for the recipe so to speak… As much as a postmodernist as I am, I feel like rather than all having become techno peasants it’s more like Animal Farm: some animals are more equal than others.

    Robin That map is really interesting, and I like the idea of using that as a teaching tool! And the link…omfg!!!

    Comment by kbusse — May 2, 2007 @ 10:27 pm

  39. I’m putting my full name on this one. With trepidation! I feel that I am emerging from a fangirl closet.

    Kristina said:

    Jason’s comment might be academically honest, but it also gestures toward what is and isn’t considered important in academic discourse at the moment.

    Yes, exactly. The lack of time is real, and results in a prioritization that reflects hierarchy of scholarly importance. If you have time to read one new book, it will be the book that everybody’s talking about. Of course, that prioritization is unavoidable. But if we’re trying to talk about the politics of the hierarchy which affects which scholarship will be considered most important, it may not help much to describe a lack of time and interest in a marginalized field which can be understood as both effect and cause of that marginalization.

    Comment by Alexis Lothian — May 2, 2007 @ 10:44 pm

  40. FYI - I realized after last typing that I had some info on this. In our book, one of the chapters is by C. Lee Harrington and Denise Bielby, where they sent out a survey to people doing fan studies around the world, asking lots of questions about the conceptualizations of what fan studies is or isn’t. One question was about whether there was a canon, and if so, who was in it. Well, we all know who owned the unquestionable number one spot, right? Henry. Lisa Lewis (as editor), Matt Hills, Camille Bacon-Smith and Janice Radway were in the next tier, with Harrington and Bielby (and Lee Harrington by the way is a woman: I say this because I always thought her name sounded like that of a Southern general with a white moustache until I met her), Will Brooker, Jackie Stacey, Abercrombie and Longhurst, Ien Ang, Lawrence Grossberg, and Constance Penley occupying the next tier. Admittedly, this reflects an older lot for the most part (and reflects the snowball started rolling with slightly older scholars), but for a survey of 65 people, it wasn’t exactly all Hills, Brooker, and Sandvoss all the time (this, by the way, is a channel that Time Warner will soon be packaging with their MIT Lifetime Channel For Fangirls on the Time Warner Convergence channel). Cornel’s absence from the list is particularly telling, I think, since it suggests that younger scholars, whether they have two books on fandom as does he or not, are still on the outside. And I’m not so sure female scholarship isn’t being read as much as some feel it isn’t: yes, the younger scholars’ work isn’t, but as I said to Kristina the other day, my own book’s only been read by people I forced to read it (thanks Mum!) +1 other person to my knowledge, and Cornel I know is displeased with how few people have touched his football book.

    Please don’t read this as defensive, or as an attempt to deflect from what I will completely acknowledge are still some profound, disturbing, and worrying gender rifts and divisions, but we might ALSO be talking about youth vs. establishment.

    Comment by Jonathan Gray — May 2, 2007 @ 11:14 pm

  41. Jason writes

    my interest in fandom is rooted in the primary text, considering how fans consume and make sense of television programs - thus my paper focused on fans who read LOST spoilers (which is not an explicitly gendered practice). I’m not particularly interested in fan productivity on its own, mostly because I don’t consume fanfic, vids, etc. and thus can’t appreciate most analyses of a form that’s foreign to me. Fan presentations that analyze fan engagement with the primary text and the mechanisms for that engagement (like the BSG wiki) interest me much more than the communities that emerge around fan writings and videos.

    This has been bothering me all day. I consider fanfiction, and vids to be rooted in the primary text, to be, in short, how fans consume and make sense of television programs. They are how female fans consume and make sense of television programs.

    My perception of my own productions in fandom (fic, vids, icons, recaps, analysis) and those of my peers has always been that these are our responses to the primary text. Unless you’re talking specifically about meta-fannish works, these productions don’t happen at a level of remove any more than searching for spoilers does. They are, in fact, fan presentations that analyze fan engagement with the primary text and the mechanisms for that engagement.

    So what’s the problem?

    Comment by Laura Shapiro — May 2, 2007 @ 11:39 pm

  42. A few more thoughts:

    Alexis - I’d say the dark secret of academia is that for many, grad school is the last time you’ll have time to actually read freely and broadly (so cherish it!). I rarely read anything (scholarship or otherwise) that I’m not potentially teaching, citing in a current project, or being tapped to review for a press or journal. In theory, I’d love to read broadly & widely, but time doesn’t allow for such breadth, while still trying to be a father (to 3!), media consumer, and blogger - all things I prefer to do than read scholarly writing. So scholarship in non-immediate fields of interest/teaching rarely makes my to-do pile - sad but true…

    And for the purposes of this debate, I want to be clear that I do not consider myself a scholar of fandom in any meaningful way - I teach some fan studies in courses surveying theories & approaches, but my scholarship is primarily about television as an institution, a practice, and a form of culture. Fandom is a part of that, but I don’t study fans as a primary object of study. And I’m equally under-read in fan studies across genders - haven’t read Sandvoss or Longhurst, merely skimmed Hills & Brooker. So thus at MIT5, my panel navigation was less motivated to highlight particular modes of fandom over others, as if anything I was more interested in non-fandom issues in the so-called fan panels I attended (producers as authors for Derek’s panel; BSG as text for the BSG panel). Again, nothing wrong with studying fandom as primary object, but it’s not what I do - just as I’m not offended if anyone else is uninterested in television genre or narrative and I wouldn’t mind if you avoided such panels.

    To widen out a bit, I wonder how much of this perceived gender split is tied to Henry framing Convergence Culture as a sequel (of sorts) to Textual Poachers. To me, this is the worst part of CC’s argument - I see TP as a book primarily about fandom, while CC is a book about how technological shifts change the practices of industries & audiences. Fans factor in, of course, but they’re merely players in the story, not the leads. For me, I like this move (but I also think the best chapter in TP is the one about Beauty & the Beast, so I’m not the typical reader…), as it coordinates with my own interests in storytelling systems and the relationship between industries & viewers. But if you want TP part 2, I can see how it might read as a betrayal specifically along both commercialized and gendered lines.

    This is not to say that the gendered split in panels & scholarly networks Kristina explored is not real or relevant - but I think the stakes are raised when one of the leaders of the field appears to have changed camps (I don’t think he has, or at least it’s not that simple) and that a cadre of fanboys have followed. That’s not how I read what has happened, nor is that the genesis of our Flow panel (which we were mistakenly told was going to have Louisa on it, but that’s another story…). So I think it’s important if we are to try to work together to repair this seeming rift among at least some parts of the field, we try to bracket off the role of CC and not try to read too much into that particular development.

    And to conclude, I think a panel for SCMS would be great to bridge transmedia storytelling and fan production - the conference theme is architectures & design, so that seems to speak to broader systems of narrative construction & reconstruction. Let me know if anybody’s interested in participating.
    -Jason

    Comment by jmittell — May 3, 2007 @ 12:58 am

  43. Laura wrote (while I was writing my post above): “This has been bothering me all day. I consider fanfiction, and vids to be rooted in the primary text, to be, in short, how fans consume and make sense of television programs. They are how female fans consume and make sense of television programs.”

    Sorry to have bothered you all day! Certainly we can learn a lot about how some people (although I wouldn’t generalize to “female fans” broadly) relate to narratives through an analysis of vids/fanfic. But these are highly complicated modes of communication, infused with creativity and personal expression much more than a spoiler (or at least they should be). My guess is that if some scholar were to look at a bunch of BSG vids and then argue that this is evidence that fans only care about Laura and Adama getting it on, the fan community would be pretty insulted about such a reductive reading. The good scholarship I’ve read about fan creativity treats these texts as expressions that go beyond making sense of a TV program, with their own genre norms, conventions, shorthands, community intertexts, etc. - I think it would be inappropriate for an outsider to attempt to read these creative works merely as evidence for how some fans consume TV. So I feel that to give fanfic/vids the respect they deserve, I’d have to read/watch a lot and gain a level of competency & appreciation that I don’t have at the moment. Since it’s not the thrust of my research (and many people who care & know much more about the area do a better job than I ever could), I choose not to become invested in that community & form. Make sense?
    -Jason

    Comment by jmittell — May 3, 2007 @ 1:12 am

  44. [...] Busse, compellingly, on fan & media studies and gendered participation—with good stuff in other posts, too; B. has put up some material previously held under a [...]

    Pingback by reqfd.net / interlude — May 3, 2007 @ 1:18 am

  45. [...] 02May07 I just want to call attention to anyone interested in media studies to Kristina Busse’s post about MIT5 and the gender split across panels. In brief, among panels concerning fandom, female [...]

    Pingback by Great discussion about gender divides in media studies « Just TV — May 3, 2007 @ 1:24 am

  46. Jason, I completely agree with you in your reading of CC and think that it did feel to me a bit like a betrayal of sorts, a move from women to men, from subculture to mainstream, from fan communities to fannish practices, from grown women to little girls as representatives of “us.”

    And you’re also correct that this is, of course, only a small part of Henry’s ouevre, i.e., when I read Fans, Gamers, Bloggers right next to CC, I clearly got a sense of the breadths of his work of which “we” are only one part. And again, even if we still think of Henry as the one who put us on the map so to speak, who told our story to the world, there *are* enough of us to do so now, so that it indeed may be just right that he’s bridging and connecting and including, that he’s looking at intersections and connections and similarities.

    And of course this entire discussion is somewhat fraught by the fact that we haven’t produced anyone yet to rival some of the younger fan scholars on the “male” side of the field, so that the analogies and comparisons are fraught already. (Though, of course, as we’ve said before, there may be systemic reasons for that as well!) Plus, you and Jonathan as the central interlocutors are kind of sideways to the field anyway, which makes much of this yet again more difficult.

    All of that being said, though, I’d maintain that it’s important we continue to look at the way gender *does* affect academic and fannish engagements. I certainly have clear biases, but to me the amazing labor of love Francesca chronicled, for example, in early vidding deserves to be remembered and preserved and studied, because it is a level of engagement I don’t find in many individualist (male) fan audiences. The affect may be the same, but the analytic and interpretive engagements take such different forms! (And, I have a feeling as a visual scholar interested in complexity you’d actually have a field day. :)

    Finally, but maybe most importantly, I’d *love* to see this as the central focus of an SCMS panel! And since there’s no MiT next year and SCMS is stateside, I might even be able to make it… Wonderful suggestion.

    Comment by kbusse — May 3, 2007 @ 1:25 am

  47. Laura: I think that might be another way of framing the issue. One of the reasons that the female media fan community is reading the fanboys is that we think we are doing what they’re doing: most of us are fans in that way, too. We watch Dr. Who and BSG, we think about spoilers, we post to boards, etc. We like hard sf and Trek and we know that the TIE in TIE Fighter stands for “Twin Ion Engine.” But we also do these other things, and the interest isn’t reciprocated. It’s hard not to feel punished for being a polyglot. It would almost be easier if we weren’t interested and didn’t care–then we’d be separate but equal. But we DO, and so we make up part of their demographic, and they don’t make up much of ours.

    Comment by Francesca Coppa — May 3, 2007 @ 1:34 am

  48. Jason, I hadn’t read your response to Laura yet (who is the vidding curator for the Annenberg DIY conference), but I agree and disagree with you here. Yes, vidding in particular is an art form with very specific aesthetic demands and skills, and just like any art form it takes reading skills to fully appreciate some of the more complex texts. In fact, my entire paper for MiT was about the way much of fanfiction (in that case) is about intertextuality and how it needs to be contextualized.

    Otoh, I don’t think that means noone can ever read a story or watch a vid who hasn’t been fully trained/immersed in the respective communities. Many of the more ambitious vids are not simply an attempt to bring together our favorite pairing, for example, but are intricate interpretations and analyses that actually are much closer to the source text than most of the fanfiction I read ever is. So while you are totally correct that vids contain their own genre norms, conventions, shorthands, community intertexts, etc., I’d argue that does not make them incomprehensible or unenjoyable to someone “only” a fan of the show : )

    Comment by kbusse — May 3, 2007 @ 3:30 am

  49. *waves* We’ve been under thunderstorm warning (and storm), forecasts of winds up to 90 mps, lots of thunder and lightning, but I had to sneak on.

    Kristina: I hate this format as well. It’s so clunky compared to LJ! (And no spell check and preview, dang it, not that I can find?)

    Some of the discussion above led me to go back into an essay I recently submitted (on female bodies in Tolkien) to quote a paragraph or two from my draft on Tolkien scholarship. Arguably, more women participated in Tolkien scholarship during the first fifty years than for many other literary texts (the overlap with Medieval studies which has more women than other areas of history, plus the outsider status of Tolkien’s work, probably helped). But the women mostly did not do feminist or gendered readings (that is changing now, but even now, I’m seeing a pattern of women doing straight feminist readings while a couple of males do queer/male readings).

    Here’s about 500 words from the essay that I think may connect to what we’re talking about; at least I see what I point to here as being one of the things I am reading your comments, and Francesca’s, as linking to:

    Few critics who focus on the question of women in Tolkien incorporate feminist or gender methodologies; the majority of the articles draw upon New Critical/structuralist approaches, such as the analysis of the extent to which female characters are based on figures from the classical age, the Germanic heroic era, or medieval Christianity. Those methods are equally applied to male characters. Other work, Jungian or Freudian in approach, takes a more psychological view of Tolkien’s personality in regard to women or to his created characters, including the question of his treatment of sex or his reliance upon the chivalric model of romance. Such articles tend to focus primarily on female characters and, to a lesser extent, the relationship between Frodo and Sam. Critical disagreement over whether Tolkien was personally misogynistic or simply an average man of his time and place underlies a number of the scholarly articles. What is missing from most of this scholarship is an awareness of the extent to which critical scholarship, as well as the works scholars subject to analysis, cannot and does not exist within a universal / timeless / genderless space.

    The critical debates over women in Tolkien’s work exist within the historical context of the 20th century, particularly the changes in women’s lives and in the social expectations for women and men during, changes which were taking place during